TIME FOR ART TO USE SCIENCE FOR A CHANGE
Forum > Art Theory and History
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 It is interesting that when one speaks in pictures - the whole dynamic shifts... I wish some scientist or 20 would do some serious cognitive study around art, creativity and communications - I mean I am sure they have but I want to see how conscience (whatever we or they feel that might be defined as) acts to create new thought, Duchamp's "eros" the spark, the eureka moments, and thereby the place of such (and art) in life to move culture along, unsettle it even, shake it up and provide stronger more meaningful myth to believe in. I am sick and tired of the likes of Kim Hill being a patsy for science - a couple of weeks ago she called Sam Hunt simply... "eccentric as if he had horns growing out dear Sam's forehead and last year almost making Peter Puryer almost cry after her interview with him... in his words "she needs to actually learn what art is and the role of artist, inform herself rather than go for personalities" (or words to that effect). Recently a whole parade of scientists were using art (in the capital) for their PR needs arguably and somewhat laudibly to proffer science's role and our collective need to speak out about environmental matters... but I say it's time we used science for our purposes. Shift the debate along our own needs terms... eg... When was there ever a Creative NZ or even Artists Alliance conference with peers offering art and papers, and real sharing of the cultural role and need for art and artists? Art and the spiritual? Humour in culture and art? Health and community art? Artists in city design and implementation? Our own stands on Art and activism, the environment? How about art history and cognitive scientists join hands to develop a version of a job description/role definition for art and artists of this 21st. century? ie. looking back in what ways have art and artists actually effected change in society? very good PHD topic don't you think? or do you think? I am not well schooled inthese matters so would love to hear what papers/ books/ films along some of these lines already exist? I mean is our art master history? or acclaim? a few sheckels or what? Is it right that we shake the cage of culture and if so why? for what purpose? new myths? As my usual kind of joke about ah - 20 years ago I came up with the idea that rather than donate my body to bloody science - I would donate it to art - so watch out for trade me... who wants to make something out of an artist's mortal remains... for art and science history? Good title "MORTAL MATTERS" |
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24 Comments, showing 1 to 20
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Oh well! I actually love Sam Hunt, but his whiny 20th Century old rocker voice does get a bit dreary on it. But we sure do need characters that BREAK the robotron's ability from ruling civilization.
Artists and creatives are supposed to challenge the square mold. Without them there is no hope. Even if it is just a fantasy. Just the sheer prospect of hope is what keeps us from... you know ______.
If people run you down and act as if you have horns that is a compliment. Because dumb people will always be dumb and they are showing us how dumb they are, but not to worry, there are just a few too many that think like that around these days.
- Science and art (in my opinion) are married because they both depend on experimentation. People scared of failure cannot experiment and well actually success depends on failure. There is no waste in art or for that matter science because we learn from every mistake. That is what progress is supposed to be about. Improvement, but many minds have grown dim and are scared. And their imaginations have died
Hey yeah, that kind of adds weight to the idea that science is the new dominant religion. All dominant religions pander to the structure. Hungering for state injection and control.
Really? You agree, hmmm that's strange...Wiki says, "In the punk subculture, the DIY ethic is tied to punk ideology and anticonsumerism, as a rejection of the need to purchase items or use existing systems or processes."
Sadly, everything related to a "self-reliant" system is labeled, pseudo. Anything that is not legitimized by credentialism is pseudocized. The only form of science that will peer through art is pseudo-science.
Every artist that is deemed "outside" is pseudocized and illegitimized, therefore the public is left at the mercy of the brainwashed and boxed credentialized and there, we have a banal "art" world. Just so the tertiary "educative" sector can expand.
Blogs are pseudo-journalism.
Quint, I cant say I know a lot about punk ideology, but regardless of our ideologies we are more likely manacled to consumerism, like it and accept it or not, in that if you take away the consumer driven markets that pretty much dictate how the world lives today, and thereby as a result take away all the services like supply of power and food etc that help us survive, then, how would you handle things Punk?......well how would you? said tongue in cheek in a Clint Eastwood voice.
What I find amazing B’art is how so many people can (or try to) use art to their own ends without ever understanding what its about!
Hey I’ve got an idea you let me use your art to highlight my agenda and everyone will see it and buy it...Yeah right!
Quoting Quint Baker:
Is education science? You say: "peoples' Imaginations, creativity, freedom have now all been manacled to the market via science"... have you an example of one way "science" has managed to do this? Perhaps statistics in market research? Things like that?
People have stunning creative capacities, yet we are shackled to a market forced economy to earn enough pennies to live... we call this work. What do we "work" for? the pennies. What do the pennies purchase? rent, mortgages, food and all the other stuuf. All the other stuff includes science driven products and services like this f...ing computer, cell phones, cars. Einstein was it? gave us quantum theory without which we would not have CDs, DVDs, lazer et al.
Our thirst for increased EASE and resultant speed of life, services has gotten to a tipping point I believe - a point of saturation where the very things we think we need and or desire like this machine we are speaking on, the net, any technological device, simply don't meet a real and lasting sence of satisfaction of - here we go - SOUL. The converse is actually the need, to slow down, take in the ocean, friends, the environment, look back to go forward? Science is of course one of the great arts (oh wow I do like that trunaround!) of humanity but the drivers of our so called economies are so desperately thirsty for "increased returns" that any small advantage by any manufacturer - like labour rates of say China is immediately pounced on and taken advantage of. Na - capitalism is shot - it's gotta change, socialism didn't cut the bread so god knows how we shift the myths behind market forces? We could simply start by buying less crap? doing more "time bank" styled economic transactions? Finding alternatives to the retail therapy drivers - I mean I like to go skip diving for my retail therapy? The market forces epople apart, through speed of lives lived and increasing specialisation of commodoties delivered into our homes - we have no need to know our neighbours - - 30 years ago - in seeing this issue I threaded up Claremont Grove in Mount Victoria to form a long circle then we celebrated and handed out our street directory so we could know who lived where. Is this my art version of String theory?
Don't get me going on celebrity Quint... : )
Greed is the problem not consumerism, overt consumerism only exists on greed, we couldn't consume so much crap if it was all priced without the greed of the few. I want people to consume my art so I can buy fish off the fishmonger and vege's from the vege man, and wine from the wine guy, I can't catch fish or make wine and I'm crap at gardening, so I need consumerism...to a point. It's such a fine line .
Quoting Madgie:
Greed is a need without heaven and hell, the world becomes self consuming. If the time can be shortened to the length that is required to capitalize on human development as a science then education as a vehicle is the perfect means to the end of any independent force that occupies its terrain.
I think I know what you mean Madgie, but you don't make it easy :-)
Education is the vehicle as you call if for everything, period. The problem is you need people capable of teaching the right teachings! therefore it is knowledge that is the key. knowledge/Teacing...Chicken/Egg!
So if you can alter/manipulate the length of time required to capitalize on the science of knowledge as the single most important aspect of human participation in their own evolution, then there is our answer. However, are we actually capable as thinking beings to alter anything without first being taught the knowledge to do so, and if not how can we identify those independant forces that occupy our terrain?
Quoting Madgie:
Shop till you drop, its not Endosymbiosis.
Care to expand on that Madgie ?
There are many walls that are blank begging for pictures to be hung on them. Think of how many walls are built out there per second. There is great demand for art. People are limited by a vast LACK of creative indulgence. Office workers are so depressed by the a dull and oppressing world that they have come to prefer flat grey or insipid olive green walls. So imaginations grow smaller and smaller and the world becomes less enthusiastic and unproductive and annual incomes falls through the floor. Is it any wonder our country is over-run with social problems?
I most certainly agree that "the greedy few" are making happy life impossible. We must remember that they fear revolt most of all. Good on Green Peace for firing at least one decent torpedo. I have boycotted BP for ever and I urge everyone else to try (where possible) to do the same! Burger King took the whopper burger title off that poor small business, so I will never eat there ever again (they are a filthy and untidy restaurant anyway). Tui Beer got all nasty against that church trying to have a little billboard fun, so I will never drink that bird piss ever again! Big business should fear the public!
Quoting b'art Homme:
Quoting Quint Baker:
Don't get me going on celebrity Quint... : )
According to some I am regarded as a "celebrity invert". I admit I have trouble staying subdued and keeping to a lame diplomatic position. It is impossible for me to simply turn around and "go with the flow", since that flow is WRONG and who can stand it??? I realise that "regardless of our ideologies we are more likely manacled to consumerism", but I do believe in and regularily practise resistance in everyway possible, according to your position in the world. As I have said, Big business should fear the public! The customer is always right. Civil disobedience is always an option for anything. Forget about exposing the hypocrisy in others, just do what you can do to resist the machine. If a vegetarian eats a little beef flavoured vege stock, who cares? It is good that they have reduced their personal animal intake, and that is the good we look for. How would I address Clint Eastwood? = Sell your house. Hand in your mortgage. Never borrow from the bank again for anything. Your bank manager is actually your enemy seeking to enslave you. Say goodbye to all your life sucking friends that only hang out with you to make them look good. Get life sucking family members out of your life who are in fact slaves themselves and so on. The power is in your own house!
Back to the subject of the object of the subject...
Isn't it amazing that Duchamp came up with...
1. A new unit of measure
2. An entirely new dimension - INFRATHIN
Was he being an artist? a scientist? - and or just a live wired comic brain bouncing in both domains?
The Haidron particle collider enticingly offers us an whole 11 new dimensions to know and play in but there Duchamp came up with one - the guts of a century ago.
Idea: Infra/altraNOW - ie. is there a dimension in time - between now and then - that we simply cannot yet see?
Coming up with a new unit of measure or even a new dimension isn’t really rocket science, couldn’t resist that, so it must be art! We can create these for ourselves any time, however making them relevant to something other than pure fantasy isn’t so easy. I think there a few dimensions we cannot as yet see, or understand perhaps is a better word.
Andrew Drummond uses science in a way somewhat similar to how science has used art as you mentioned, in that his very scientifical (my new word) pieces don’t necessarily relate directly to scientific outcomes, while they do relate to the scientific processes and formulas. Therefore in the context you talk about he uses science to bring attention to his voice, as science has used art to highlight theirs.
So much of the Capital's massive and bloated public art issues and delivers from this kind of industrialisation and commercialisation of this new art "MARKET" sory Mr. but most of it can go down Marcel's urinal for all I care or respect. I like Hotere's one facing the arts council and Phil's big wind wand but the other 30?... pooos.
And as for $350k for a "sculpture" of rugby players well - er - let's go back to mussolinis wonderful self aggrandised art as a reference to such dribble.
Maybe you are Andrew? I apologise if you are and this is a bit harsh but the truth is usually my muse.
Are his sculptures (many of which I am not very familiar) really an advance on new science or simply re-hashing well known principles? His tube steel one in the bot gardens and his wind driven (constantly failing it appears) one on Evan's bay - both here in the capital are about as revelatory as an ironing board in art historic and or conceptual art terms - and we know his early conceptual stuff he did along with us at our arts centre in 78 or there abouts was more interesting and provocative , more edgy and inteligent but of course it goes without saying it is hard to earn a crust at this stuff. Easier to trot out what the marlet will pay bigtime for nay?
Our best for me in the art/science is Len Lye surely, Evan Webb's painstaking re-creations and re-working thereof.
